22 JUNE 1940SRI AUROBINDO: The French Government is still at Bordeaux and negotiations have only started now! The Pondicherry Page -739 Government news was that the French Governor had left for Casablanca. PURANI: The Germans speak of the heroic resistance of the French Army and say that their terms will not be unjust or dishonourable. SRI AUROBINDO: No, they say they won't be shameful but severe. SATYENDRA: The Italian news says that they won't be as bad as Versailles. SRI AUROBINDO: They may not be as bad but still bad enough. If, as is reported, Hitler wants all the colonies contiguous with British colonies, then our position becomes unsafe. NIRODBARAN: But the colonies may refuse to accept such terms. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, in that case Pétain may find an excuse and break out. But if he surrenders the navy and the colonies nothing can be more shameful and more disastrous. SATYENDRA: Hitler may not be so severe now and maybe content at present with only the occupation of France. SRI AUROBINDO: France in any case is gone now. Resistance is out of the question but Hitler may give such terms as to make them so powerless that he can later get the colonies and the navy. SATYENDRA: Many soldiers are passing to Switzerland, they say, and are being interned. They must have been tired. SRI AUROBINDO: No, not tired. They don't want to surrender, perhaps. From Gamelin's photo which I saw the other day it seems to me he has no brains. He has been under the notion that defence is stronger than attack and he prepared everything only according to that principle. Being fortress-minded himself, he made the soldiers also fortress-minded. It is said that when he met the German mechanised troops he didn't know what to do; he was so unprepared for such things as open attacks. And the wonderful Maginot Line is not a complete line. Some areas have only scattered fortifications. This Daladier, who was supposed to be an indispensable War Minister as Briand was an indispensable Foreign Minister, has done nothing. He and Chamberlain were saying all the time, "We are preparing and preparing", but they have prepared nothing at all. That is what surprised me most, that Daladier was considered the strong man of France, while he was so evidently weak. In their Page -740 meeting with Hitler, Hitler was clearly the most cunning, strong and powerful as if he could break them into bits; Daladier was of course the weakest and Chamberlain was a crafty fool thinking that he was dealing most diplomatically with Hitler while he didn't see the reality of what he was doing. I wonder how Chamberlain had such a tremendous influence on the Conservatives. SATYENDRA: Perhaps because of his laissez-faire policy and his policy of appeasement. SRI AUROBINDO: How can a laissez-faire policy build up a reputation as a politician? SATYENDRA: Except for the war, he would have gone down in history as a big politician. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. PURANI: A certain military officer has written that France had no idea about Germany's strength, the tremendous number of her tanks, mechanised units, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: The French had some idea but not much. The fact is that they didn't expect such an overwhelming onrush. As I said, they have been made fortress-minded, not prepared for an open attack on such a huge scale. What is England doing to meet these tanks? They are talking only of their air force. PURANI: Yes, they are providing for it by building tanks themselves. NIRODBARAN: But how will the Germans carry the tanks to England? Besides, Churchill doesn't expect an invasion. SATYENDRA: No, not a big invasion. Because of their navy they will be able to crush much of the German Army. Churchill says that as the fighting will be on their own ground they will be at an advantage. SRI AUROBINDO: What Hitler may do is that he may choose a point and strike with his aeroplanes, destroy the ports and carry troops inland. That is the only possible way, it seems to me. But to maintain a regular supply line will be difficult. PURANI: There is Nazi activity in Uruguay. If America takes up Uruguay's cause, perhaps Berlin will stop threatening her. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, if Berlin intervenes, then America will certainly intervene and it may serve as an excuse for Roosevelt to join the war. Page -741 EVENINGThis evening there was very little talk. SRI AUROBINDO: The radio first says the plenipotentiaries are communicating with Pétain. Then it says they are not plenipotentiaries. NIRODBARAN: So all the previous news was rumour? SRI AUROBINDO: It comes to that. PURANI: It seems the meeting is being held in the same old cabin as at the end of World War I. The terms are about thirty typed pages. SRI AUROBINDO: Then there can't be any discussion? PURANI: Not likely. If in the meantime the Italian navy could be destroyed it would be a great gain. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but the navy is not wandering about. It must be hiding in ports behind mines. PURANI: Alexandria has been bombed again. NIRODBARAN: Egypt was once on the point of declaring war. She said that she would do it if her ports and country were attacked. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, she has changed now. She considers what has happened as simply incidents. She removed her troop from the Italian frontier when, in an engagement, some were killed. She didn't want to get involved. 23 JUNE 1940According to B.B.C. radio the armistice between France and German has been signed. Navy, air force and colonies are supposed to be handed over to Hitler. But French radio from Saigon said nothing. PURANI : If the navy and air force revolt and join the British? (Sri Aurobindo simply shook his hands meaning "I don't know what they will do.") Romania also has declared itself totally in line with the Axis Powers. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh! The whole world seems to have been taken up by self-interest, cowardice and treachery. NIRODBARAN: It makes the situation very complicated. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Page -742 NIRODBARAN: But Russia may intervene if Rumania goes over. She has her claims in Bessarabia. SRI AUROBINDO: She has been assured and so may not press them now. If Turkey also backs out and Gibraltar goes, then England will be in a precarious condition. NIRODBARAN: Still there are people in the Ashram who think that Hitler wants only his old colonies and nothing more. SRI AUROBINDO: He may not till he has consolidated his position in France. Didn't the American consul say that Germany wants France's colonies and a little more? PURANI : France may establish a Fascist dictatorship. This present Government is all right-wing people. SRI AUROBINDO: Fascist dictatorship under a dictator? SATYENDRA: Has it been in the paper? PURANI : That is not necessary. One can surmise because they are right-wingers. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, in the extreme right wing there are two sections. One wants Fascist dictatorship and the other wants to bring back monarchy. PURANI: Hitler may try a blockade on England. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if he has control of the Mediterranean then it will be dangerous. NIRODBARAN: But before that the English navy has to be crushed — unless the French navy surrenders to Hitler. PURANI: The French navy and Italian submarines will be powerful enough — if America joins the war! SRI AUROBINDO: If Roosevelt can conquer the anti-intervention feeling — NIRODBARAN: By the inclusion of two Republicans into his administration, the situation seems a little worse. SRI AUROBINDO: How? PURANI: Has it been confirmed that they have been disowned by the party? SRI AUROBINDO: No, they have said that they owe allegiance to the President. NIRODBARAN: But the Republican Party has said that it is strongly pro-Allies and wants to lead America to war. The appointment of two of its members speaks for itself. SATYENDRA: How is England going to fight alone? Page -743 SRI AUROBINDO: If she can win against the Germans, it would mean that she is specially protected. NIRODBARAN: But why should there be a special treaty with Italy? SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps Italy has special demands. NIRODBARAN: Hitler is protecting Italy's interests. (Laughter) PURANI: Gandhi writes in the Harijan that violence hasn't improved the moral stature of man. Non-violence can do that. SRI AUROBINDO: But he is putting the cart before the horse. The moral stature has to be improved before man becomes non-violent. SATYENDRA: Sarojini Naidu seems to have visited Raman Maharshi. She writes that she has seen two Mahans. One is Maharshi and the other Gandhi. Maharshi gives peace. SRI AUROBINDO: And Gandhi gives Charkha? (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: There sems to be a Khaskar movement in Bengal also. SRI AUROBINDO: I see; I didn't know that. In Bihar it exists, so it may also be in Bengal. NIRODBARAN: The Hindustan Standard says that the Government is not taking any measures against it while it talks of communists and other people. SRI AUROBINDO: The Hindustan Standard is Bose's paper, isn't it? NIRODBARAN: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: Then why doesn't it object? They are half Mohammedans themselves!
EVENINGPURANI: It seems to me that very soon there will be a revolution in France. There will be dissatisfaction in the army and among various parties. Already with the peace-terms many sections are dissatisfied. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, within a year of Hitler's going. PURANI : I don't know if they will wait even for that. The French are such people. SATYENDRA: Revolution is in their blood and tradition. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but there won't be much chance of success in Hitler's time. There are very few Monarchists and Page -744 Fascists. Most are Republicans It seems many Leftist leaders have reached London along with rich Jews and others. NIRODBARAN: In that case it will fulfil the prophecy that France will become communist! SRI AUROBINDO: All the prophecies have proved wrong. Those from Pondicherry said that from the 23rd June Hitler's fall will begin, and those from Bombay chose the 20th. Prophecies can't be relied on. A French astrologer says that as regards world events European prophecies have always proved wrong while Hindu astrologers were right. Who are these Hindu astrologers? Kapali Shastri also couldn't say anything about the Year of the Gods. PURANI: No. SRI AUROBINDO: They have spoken about past events. SATYENDRA: In the Bhavishya Purana there are some prophecies. PURANI: They are more historical. SRI AUROBINDO: Apart from historical ones, there are others too. Isn't it so? PURANI: Yes, but they are more individual than general. The writer speaks there of the return of the House of Delhi. SRI AUROBINDO: The House of Delhi? Mogul? That is finished. PURANI: He means Rajput. As regards historical events, the Bhavishya Purana deals with them up to the advent and establishment of British rule in India. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. I remember how during the Swadeshi movement the Bengal revolutionaries used to quote passages from it to show the downfall of the British. NIRODBARAN: Have you seen that Bose is trying to make a pact with Jinnah? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. What about Pakistan then? NIRODBARAN: He will agree to it. SRI AUROBINDO: Does he want to Mohammedanise Bengal? NIRODBARAN: Have you read Gandhi's statement today? He supports the French surrender, saying they did well by bowing to the inevitable. SRI AUROBINDO: It was not inevitable. PURANI: He adds: provided the terms are honourable. NIRODBARAN: And provided they refuse to be a party to mutual destruction. Page -745 SRI AUROBINDO: Does that mean that you go on being defeated till you are destroyed? If according to him peace is the aim of life, why fight at all, violently or non-violently? You can simply go on peacefully with love for — what is that fellow's name? PURANI: Virawalla? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, with love in your heart for Virawalla. PURANI: He says fighting Hitlerism will produce super-Hitlerism, and that is no solution. Now regarding the gospel of Charkha, he says its purpose is not only economic but it is a great instrument of training in discipline and other moral qualities. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. Why Charkha then? Why not cricket? You can play cricket with love in your heart for the bowler? (Laughter) I suppose it is because Charkha is a weary and monotonous business that it helps more to discipline. Is that it? (Laughter) (After a while) If Bhaskar's new version of radio news is true it means that the Germans will occupy all the ports and frontiers and coasts and the French will be interned in Paris and places around it. PURANI: Yes. 24 JUNE 1940The armistice terms were announced on the radio. PURANI: I took Dilip to the British Consul today. He expressed his sympathy for the British and wished their victory, to which the Consul replied, "It is not like the old times now, just throwing in a huge number of people. The warfare is quite different now, everything is mechanised and highly technical." Then Dilip said, "India also will fight alongside the British if only she is given the opportunity. We have no arms, no ammunitions, no training. How can we help? If the Government made some gesture, then everybody would willingly help. Sarojini Naidu has said that nobody in India wants Hitler's victory. If the British gave some self-government - for instance, Dominion Status — all would help the Allies." SRI AUROBINDO: Is what she says true? I thought that India was anti-British. Mitran has told the Mother that Madras is pro-Hitler. SATYENDRA: That must be the bazaar gossip. Mitran can't have the opportunity of mixing with various people. Natesan also expressed some sarcasm at the cost of Britain. I suppose some Page -746 pleaders may be of that sentiment, but the rest of the public won't side with them. NIRODBARAN: I think most of the young people are anti-British. Only elderly people and leaders are not. SRI AUROBINDO: The young people have no sense then and don't seem to understand anything. SATYENDRA: They have no political sense. SRI AUROBINDO: But in Europe it is the youth who are alive and active. SATYENDRA: Yes, but we are not entrusted with any responsibility or any opportunity to take part in active political life. PURANI: These armistice terms mean practically the end of France. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh! I wonder whether it was treachery or cowardice that made them accept these terms. This fool of a Marshal Pétain has sold France. SATYENDRA: If at least a part of the navy could be saved! SRI AUROBINDO: Don't know. Pétain has put three admirals in his cabinet to prevent that. SATYENDRA: Yes, they go by rules and traditions and authority. The navy is not likely to revolt, perhaps. NIRODBARAN: All this talk about soldier to soldier must be a hoax. How can one think it to be true after seeing the acceptance of such terms? How could they accept such a peace? SRI AUROBINDO: They will accept anything. If they are asked to give Morocco to Spain or Indo-China to Japan they will agree. NIRODBARAN: There is no mention of colonies in the terms. SRI AUROBINDO: That will come in the final peace terms. It is only an armistice now — unless it is left to Italy to demand it. Their original plan was that Germany would take the north of France and Italy the south, now it comes almost to that and the French Government is interned with no communication with the outside world. NIRODBARAN: If the navy and the air force don't come back? SRI AUROBINDO: They can't be brought back. Hitler may then say that the armistice terms have been broken and he will occupy the whole of France. PURANI: And how will Hitler subjugate the colonies that don't accept the French Government? In the Middle East the authorities Page -747 have said they will fight on. Pétain will have to send the French fleet against them. SRI AUROBINDO: The navy won't do; he will have to send land troops. PURANI: Then he can transport them by the French navy. SRI AUROBINDO: That will be too obvious an alliance with Hitler and will make people still more furious. The Mother said that the bazaar people were so frightened that when they heard of England's promise of assistance and of a National Committee in London, they were relieved. You have seen in Saigon how the people crowded round the British embassy and expressed their allegiance to the Allies. But the public alone is not enough. The soldiers and the officers must also accept them. NIRODBARAN: Now that Laval is appointed a minister it is clear that he was acting from behind. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, now what will be the plight of the refugees who have taken shelter in France — Czechs, Belgians, Italians and Poles? They will have to be surrendered to Hitler and will undergo severe trials. NIRODBARAN: Some people here still believe that Hitler has no eye on India as he does not want colonies. SRI AUROBINDO: He is talking of colonies now. NIRODBARAN: I don't see what can prevent him from coming to India if Britain goes down. And they say that Hitlerism after all may not be much worse than imperialism. SRI AUROBINDO: Good Lord! PURANI: Y says that. I told him that under Hitlerism he won't be allowed even to talk of freedom. SRI AUROBINDO: Not only that, nobody will be allowed to think or speak anything worthwhile. Of course one can think, but most people are fed by others thoughts and writings. Very few can think for themselves. Under Italy it would be the same except perhaps with a little less thorough suppression. Under Russia too the same. Japan might allow thought and speech so long as you don't say anything offensive against the police and the State. PURANI: If France is not allowed commerce, the people will be in an awful plight. SRI AUROBINDO: In winter there is likely to be starvation in all the occupied areas. Without crops and exports how will they survive? There is failure of crops this year, they say. In all the Page -748 countries occupied by Hitler, the same fate will visit them. Denmark was a prosperous country, its prosperity has gone; so too with Belgium. The Scandinavian countries were some of the most advanced economically. They tried to solve the problem of poverty. Now all that is gone. The German invasion has come as a cataclysm. It is on the way to destroying all civilisation. PURANI: Subscriptions raised here for the war won't be sent to France, they say. SATYENDRA: What will be the state of the French currency if the colonies recognise the Bordeaux Government? SRI AUROBINDO: Then we will lose all our money and the Ashram will have to be dissolved. But if they decide to side with Britain, there won't be any trouble. If Pondicherry recognises the Bordeaux Government the British will at once take possession of it. SATYENDRA: Again it is given in the paper that the Americans will keep off. NIRODBARAN: Dilip's prophecy will be true then? They don't want to board a sinking ship. SRI AUROBINDO: They will have their own ship sinking. NIRODBARAN: That will be ten or twenty years later. SRI AUROBINDO: Not so long. Hitler won't wait so long. NIRODBARAN: The Patrika says Germany has built many flat-bottomed boats which will sail from the Scheldt on a calm day and, strongly supported by warships, etc., invade England. SRI AUROBINDO: Every day won't be calm, and what will they do then? How will they maintain their supplies?
EVENINGAccording to the radio news the Viceroy will be meeting Gandhi and Jinnah during the week. SATYENDRA: This Viceroy Linlithgow is a good man. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. PURANI: Better than Willingdon at any rate. NIRODBARAN: It was Mrs. Willingdon who was worse. SRI AUROBINDO: So Linlithgow is better than Lady Willingdon. (Laughter) Page -749 PURANI: The French officers, members of the Cercle, are going to send a wire to De Gaulle in England that they will also fight along with the British. SRI AUROBINDO: It will have a moral value but if the Governor sent such a declaration, it would have a political value. De Gaulle should declare at once the names of the members of the National Committee. A single person won't command confidence. SATYENDRA: But the French colonies have appealed already. PURANI: Appealing is not enough. They must repudiate the Government. That is more important. SRI AUROBINDO: Mombrant on hearing the armistice terms said, "It is not armistice, it is treason." The Patrika says that Laval and Flandin have engineered the whole thing, Laval being friendly with Italy and Flandin with Germany. PURANI: Very soon after the war began, there came the news that there was sabotage in France. The shells that were supplied were too big for the cannons; the ammunition and gunpowder wouldn't ignite. SRI AUROBINDO: That means that it was in the factories that this happened. Work of the communists? PURANI: Perhaps. NIRODBARAN (after a while): The Viceroy's and Gandhi's meeting is Amery's work. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. We have to see what comes of it. If the British grant what Amery calls Dominion Independence, there is some chance. Or if they agree to what the Indian leaders decide about the nature and formation of their own Government, subject to some conditions, there is also some chance. NIRODBARAN: In Bengal the Governor has formed a war committee representative of all the parties except the Congress. Shyama Prasad and M. N. Mukherji are there. SRI AUROBINDO: The Muslim League also? NIRODBARAN: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: N. R. Sircar? NIRODBARAN: I didn't see his name. Oh, he is said to be indisposed. SRI AUROBINDO: Really or conveniently? (Laughter) Page -750 25 JUNE 1940Francois Baron, presiding over a meeting of French people at Calcutta, passed a resolution that they would side with Britain.
SRI AUROBINDO: Baron has taken a position. PURANI: Yes. SATYENDRA: Did he give any speech? SRI AUROBINDO: No, he was the President. They passed a resolution. PURANI: X is going to write a book on Charkha, showing the virtues of Charkha and warning that unless Europe adopts it there is no salvation for Europe. The machine has played tremendous havoc and destroyed life. It is the Charkha alone that can save it, he says. SRI AUROBINDO: When the Charkha was in full swing, was there no destruction? PURANI: Not such as caused by the machine. SRI AUROBINDO: There was a tremendous and widespread destruction, of course not caused by modern weapons but by the crude ones proper to those times. People were massacred on a large scale. PURANI: Yes, Baghdad, for example, was destroyed completely. Timur and others caused no less destruction. In Baghdad he erected a minaret of skulls. The British have invented some air raid shelters called Anderson shelters, about the size of a policeman's watch cabin. They are supposed to be bombproof against any explosion, even one occurring nearby. Though other buildings might fall, these shelters would remain standing erect, it is claimed. SRI AUROBINDO: The greatest preoccupation of modern man seems to be to find means of destruction as well as to find means of protection. Human ingenuity! — but after all it is an extension of the animal ingenuity. Man is supposed to be a reasoning animal. In early days destruction was intelligible - it was necessary for self- protection.
EVENINGThe radio news: clash between the Russian and Rumanian soldiers on the frontier. Gathering of the Japanese navy near Indo-China. Page -751 PURANI : It doesn't look as if Russia will wait till the end of the war. A clash has started on the Rumanian frontier. SRI AUROBINDO: It may be a rumour which will be denied later. But if true, it must be because Rumania has declared herself Nazi. NIRODBARAN: But if war starts between them Hitler will have to look on at present. SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps. PURANI : In that case Italy will jump in and that will bring Hitler in. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but it doesn't look as if Russia and Italy will involve themselves at present in the Balkans. NIRODBARAN: Turkey is not likely to join Rumania, especially as she has fallen in line with the Axis Powers. SRI AUROBINDO: In a war with Rumania, Turkey will certainly side with Russia. PURANI : Oh yes. It is easy for her. They are in one line. SRI AUROBINDO: Hitler will then have to postpone the invasion of England. NIRODBARAN: If England and Russia combine, will the result of such a combination of human and Asuric forces be good? SRI AUROBINDO: Not a true combination. They may win but the result won't be good for us. PURANI: Japan is also bringing her navy near Indo-China. SRI AUROBINDO: That is to see that no supply of goods passes through to China. NIRODBARAN: No arms are likely to pass now as France is preoccupied. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but other goods that may help China to continue the struggle may go through if Japan is not watchful. NIRODBARAN: Have you read what Jawaharlal says? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, that he doesn't think there is the slightest likelihood of a major invasion of India. Only a minor invasion from Afghanistan and such places perhaps? NIRODBARAN: No, he says there maybe some internal disturbance during the transitional period. SRI AUROBINDO: In the meantime there maybe a transition of his head from his shoulders. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: If Nehru says that, how can we blame Y? Nehru who is supposed to have international politics at his fingertips! Page -752 SRI AUROBINDO: All the knowledge most Indian politicians have of the international situation is some illusions about extreme political ideas, which have been shattered everywhere. PURANI: During the Munich crisis X was in Czechoslovakia. Even being on the spot, he could not foresee what others did from far away as to what would become of Czechoslovakia, as a result of the separation of Sudetenland. He said it would be all right. SRI AUROBINDO: Didn't he go to Barcelona during the Spanish War? PURANI: Yes, and he said that the Republicans would win. SRI AUROBINDO: Prophecy didn't come true. PURANI: No. Amery is bringing in an Emergency Bill. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, I hope the Viceroy will have some sense in giving good terms to Gandhi when they meet.
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